Why I choose the Golem over the CNR


There have been long discussions about the damage dealt by a CNR vs a Golem. The rof bonus and the probability of Defenders, distance etc etc etc. But I feel damage isn't everything when you do missions for the entire day. So I did take a chance on the Golem, and I'm not dissapointed.


So with this ship, I can aggro groups that are 100km+ away without moving. I can loot and salvage while I fight. Especially useful when you're in a different system than your salvaging ship.
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Theres also the fact that you need a LOT more skills to use a Golem

But if you can use both, the Golem is worlds better (also twice as expensive as CNR too)
-- CPE-124-188-5-176.nsw.bigpond.net.au (2008-07-04 03:33:55)
The CNR has fallen a lot in price after the introduction of the Golem. Even the navy issue Apocalypse is more expensive.
-- ChepeNolon (2008-07-08 03:42:51)
Here is a friendly counterstatement on Chepe's Golem advantages, just some points to consider:

* 3x free high slots can be used for tractors and salvager
* 40km range on the tractors
* 1225m³ cargohold
[- if you specialise on looting only without the salvage, these points might count eventually. If you are into salvage as well, specialised ships might be very well worth the extra flight back to the station, because the use of 4x4 tractors+salvagers
- bigger missions might exceed 1225m³ of cargo in loot
- the 40km range to the wrecks for missions which are worth looting still needs to be acquired with a very slow ship; MWD'ing a Cyclone (8 high slots, 475m³ base cargo, 4 low slots) to finish the loot/salvage job is uncontested in my eyes in terms of speed and ease. MWD can be activated after the mission is finished with the agent, bookmark the site. You can also use salvage rigs on the specialised ship compared to a combat ship]

* Max locked target is 10, and the range is 90km before skills and 112,5 with Long range targetting level 5.
[the CNR has max. 7 locked targets; the longer targeting range rids you of the need to fit a sensor booster. If you really need to shoot at ships at that range, you will at least have a hard time getting into 40km range to loot them]

* Ship bonus plus the extra mid slot adds to the shield tanking
[true, no counterargument here]

* It's a lot cheaper buying 4x launchers than 7x. Especially for officer mods.
4x launchers doing the same damage as 8x makes it much more attactive for using faction missiles.
["4x launchers do the same damage as 8x", which is only valid if the few cruise missiles you fire actually hit their target, NPC's are using 1-2 defenders on battleships. This might reduce the amount of your real DPS considerably.

You can fit torpedo launchers on a Golem to overcome the NPC's defenders (as torps survive them) which are bonused by the Golem. BUT, you will need torpedos skilled to level V as well as a few other missile and support skills (e.g. targeting painting IV). Also using torpedos in missions will limit you to roughly 60km (with maxed skills, Tech2 long range torps and 2x torp range rigs) and even these torps have a huge explosion radius of 350m. NPC cruisers have around 125m and battlecruisers have around 270m signature radius. The CNR with a similiar fitting and similar skills deals less than 100 dps of the Golem's torpedos @ an explosion radius of 200m. This means cruise missiles hit cruisers with more than 60% of their damage and battlecruisers get the full payload. Firing torps on cruisers will deal only 35% of the torps damage. Because of that, Golem's have ship boni on target painting. You will need to fit 1 or better 2 target painters, to bring the full damage to sub-battleship sized NPCs.

* Golem is a lot easier to fit. You can choose mods that are good, not just because they have lower cpu/power reqs.
[not necessarily when fitting T2 torpedos]

What's my point?
For the immense training time needed to properly fit and fly a golem, it simply is not worth it, if you plan on going for it directly. If you have Caldari Battleships V and Advanced Weapon Upgrades V anyway, because you're planning to become a cap ship pilot, then a Golem might be another option for a missioning ship. But the higher cost for this ship and its doubtful boni don't make it the ship of my choice. I'd rather like the Nightmare as missioning vessel, due to its massive instant long damage. Though the Nightmare works best with amarrian agents.
-- TomSchlong (2008-09-22 12:45:47)
Just a note on Tom's loot/salvage counter:
The dedicated looter is certainly faster if you line the two up against each other in a race. However what really happens with a marauder is you have time during the mission to pull in and salvage/loot while you are popping npcs. By the end of the mission, you have salvaged most wrecks (start with larges) and put almost all the loot into a can (it won't all fit in your cargo). Thus you get the benefits of fast missioning together with most of the loot/salvage without having to take any extra time to loot/salvage.

Effect: Definitely more isk/time even if the Golem happened to pop everything a bit slower than the CNR.
-- GeneralLilost (2008-10-10 08:35:25)
I think the arguments in favour of the golem are very good, the defender missile issue is significant though albeit very rat specific and dependent on range. The skills are a non issue in the end, AWU is a very useful skill to have at level V especially if you plan on doing any PvP in a Battlecruiser or larger BS V is really a must for anybody who uses a BS anyway.

Still Marauders need fixing a lot, there's no question for me that the Golem's damage bonus should be 125% via an additional rate of fire bonus (which in turn would help somewhat with defenders also). As it is they don't seem to have any kind of specialized role at all, if they do have one it should yeild more gankage, the tank's on them is fine.
-- TenkTenk (2008-10-21 05:18:23)
R and L Electronics has a FT450D
YAESU FT450D, FT-450D , HF/6m 100W with AT, IF-DSP
RandL has link to Manufacturer info on the FT450D here.
R&L has a link to the Eham review on the FT450D here.
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